Montreal’s Red Barrels on the evolution of The Outlast Trials, creating Canadian-owned IP

After releasing two acclaimed horror games in 2013's Outlast and 2017's Outlast 2, the easy decision for Montreal-based Red Barrels would have been to do Outlast 3.

However, the independent Canadian developer wanted to challenge itself rather than do another single-player horror game, and that's how The Outlast Trials came about. In the Saw-esque survival horror game, you'll have to either go it alone or team up with others to complete all kinds of messed up Cold War experiments. After an Early Access drop last year, Red Barrels launched the full game on consoles and PC in March.

Now, The Outlast Trials has received its first major update, Project Lupara, which adds a new "Prime Asset" antagonist (a mobster man-child), new map ("The Docks" drug manufacturing plant), a roguelite mode called "Escalation Therapy" (featuring a series of randomized trials and permadeath) and more.

Ahead of the release of the update, MobileSyrup spoke with Philippe Morin, the co-founder of Red Barrels, to learn more about the team's shift to a multiplayer model, the inspirations behind Project Lupara, its approach to different flavours of horror and the importance of creating and owning Canadian intellectual property (IP).

Early Access has become increasingly prevalent in recent years. What were some of the key takeaways you've had from pivoting to that model for The Outlast Trials?

Philippe Morin.

Philippe Morin: A game like Outlast Trials has a lot more systems, and is a lot more complex, design-wise, than what we've done in the past. So even though we do focus group and play tests and all that, it's not the same as like thousands of people playing your game. So that was one of the reasons why we we wanted to do an early access -- first, to get an initial batch of feedback and data from players so we can improve our systems and balancing. And also, to be fully transparent -- we had six years of production, so there needed to be some revenues. We felt the PC version was in a good place and the console versions were not ready yet, so that's why it became the plan to release the PC version as Early Access, and then, when the console versions are ready, we'll call it a "full version" and move on from there.

I don't think people realize Red Barrels isn't a massive team; you're a modest-sized studio with around 50 people. What were some of the challenges of shifting to a workflow to support a game that is multiplayer and receiving several post-launch updates?

Morin: Yeah, it's brand-new for us. Fortunately, we've been able to hire people who had the previous experience with this kind of project. So they're helping a lot on that side. But yeah, for us, the guys who worked on the first two Outlast , all this stuff is brand-new. Also, when you're used to ship a game and then go into a downtime before you start conception of another game, this feels you reach a finish line. it's like, "Well, I have to keep running? I'm out of breath, I have to keep running.

So there's this a little bit of adaptation there. It's not the same as running a sprint; it's running a marathon. So you gotta pace yourself a little bit. But initially, one of the reasons why we went with this concept was that we wanted a new challenge. And we got one. More than one, I should say! So the key here has been to grow the team with people with complementary backgrounds so we can complement each other.

Speaking of challenges, the live service, multiplayer space is such a saturated market. You're not exactly directly competing with a lot of those games, but that space has evolved a lot in the last six years since you started making The Outlast Trials. In a broad sense, what have you learned over those past six years looking at other games in the online multiplayer market in terms of what's worked well, maybe hasn't worked well, and then applied that to The Outlast Trials?

Morin: There are two things. First, I've learned over the years that paying too much attention to what others are doing can be can be bad. Because it can become noise and it gets us sidetracked and you lose your focus and all that. So once that conception phase is done in production -- and that's for any kind of game -- I feel like it's better to just stay focused, stay on track. And every project I've been on, there's been, at some point, one or two games, they're released and everybody's panicking, or "This is too close, this is too similar." But actually, that's never been the case. Your perception while you're in it is "oh, I'm in so much trouble, this other game is coming out and I'm going to be too similar." And I don't know if I've been lucky, but it's never been the case . So it's not useful to start panicking. Yes, you have to pay attention in case something comes up that really should make you change your strategy. But otherwise, I think it's better to have a clearer idea of what you want to do, and then just stick to your guns and go through it.

The second aspect... We did do at least a couple of years of prototypes. We tried a lot of things. And we're constantly revisiting some of those ideas for additional modes and stuff. We say at Red Barrels, "We never throw away anything -- everything becomes useful at one point or another." Because we are a small studio and we cannot afford to just throw stuff out. So we did do a lot of prototypes. And I think the first two playtests we did showed us that the foundation that we had could work and was different enough from other games -- that it was worth taking to the finish line. And from that moment, obviously there were more playtests -- some were positive, some not as much -- I think we just worked so long on this game that at the end, we were certain of what made this game stand on its own.

Obviously, yes, as you said, the space can be can be crowded and some games have been there for several years. But I think on our side, we were like, "Well, we know our universe, we have trust in our brand, so let's find a way to make it work." And even though, if you analyze it purely from a business side, yes, you may want to pay attention to all those games. But really, as developers, we were just focused on making the best multiplayer version of Outlast and how can we . And that's why it took us so long, because at some point, we focused too much on the design, and we lost the flavour. We lost the Outlast flavour. It didn't feel like an Outlast game anymore. So we had to backtrack a little bit to get back to a version of the game that works on its own but also makes sense within the universe.

In your first big update, the main focus this mobster villain, Franco ‘Il Bambino’ Barbi, who uses a gun in a franchise first. But then there's a twist on that where he's using teeth as ammunition. How did you land on that like sort of mobster theme and, specifically, the baby teeth elements? It's such a striking design.

Franco Barbi.

Morin:  I was mentioning that we did a lot of prototyping. We had a character with a sawed-off shotgun in the early prototypes. And it was not complete, but it showed us that the idea of adding a shotgun could work, even though the game is not a shooter. But for various reasons, we moved to other Prime Assets. But when it was time to add a new one, we just decided to revisit this behaviour. The character himself, narratively, was brand-new. We started, actually, with the actually level itself. We had the level thematically, although we changed it a bit for this update, but we already had a prototype of that environment. So we were like, "Okay, we have the environment, we have to reuse it. What Prime Asset would make sense within this environment?"

And we knew we wanted to deal with drugs, so that's how things evolved. Honestly, there's no magical recipe -- it's always "Throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks and what doesn't." And obviously, when we hear people on the team cringe or be like, "Are we really doing this?" That our cue for "things are going well, let's keep going in that direction." But yeah, it's ideas from everyone, but mostly, it's J.T. , who came up with the backstory of the comic book. But yeah, regarding why we made the choice of making it the mobster, it started with the level itself. Basically, we had the idea of the shotgun, we had the layout of the environment, and from those two , we came up with what kind of premise it should be.

How do you sort of decide on what kinds of horror elements to tackle? For instance, Franco touches on the psychosexual. Since horror can be so many different things, does the team go off and consume a bunch of horror media? How do you keep coming up with ideas for new content updates?

Morin: Of course, it helps to have a good knowledge of horror movies and horror games throughout time. Very often, when we throw a few ideas at the wall, people will be like, "Oh, this reminds me of this character, or this situation from this movie or from this other game." And that helps fuel the conversation. For example, for Franco, I was picturing a character, I couldn't remember exactly where I saw him, and then I started the game a little more and then it came to me: "Oh yeah, it's Dick Tracy." So there are some influences there, even though obviously, the story of Dick Tracy has nothing to do with Outlast. But I think the docks environment, the time period, and all that -- something made me think of Dick Tracy.

And yeah, I take notes. On Discord, we have a horror channel, and we encourage people to talk about movies, games, whatever. You cannot expect that on a team of 60, 65 people for everyone to be horror aficionados, but we encourage it as much as much as possible. And also, the tricky part is that you've got to be comfortable with some of the conversations that need to take place to come up with those designs and those ideas. There's a lot of things you hear at Red Barrels that you don't hear at other studios, or if you hear them, somebody's going to be in trouble. But yeah, it's another way to also encourage the team members to let loose a little bit and just throw ideas out there, however disgusting or disturbing they may be.

Of course, Franco isn't the only part of this update, or even The Docks map. You've added a new roguelite mode, new trials, etc. Not being a massive team like some other companies -- how do you figure out how much to include in each update? Of course, you have several plans, so when you're working out that roadmap, how do you balance all of that in terms of how much you're including and what fits into what and and that sort of thing?

Morin: We did grow the team a little bit since we launched Early Access. We were 45 a little more than a year ago, and now we're 65. It all comes down to the team -- having a bunch of people who are super motivated and focused. And also, you need to be good at identifying what's the best bang for the buck and not lose too much time over details or stuff that may not have a big impact. So I think our side, the idea of the escalation mode -- again, that's something we had in a previous prototype. In the very first version of the game, we tried to have the five trials linked from one to another, so the Escalation mode, as we have it today, is that but with a whole layer of design around it to make it more interesting in terms of rigs and perks that you can use and how the game changes.

Project Lupara.

Personally, I really enjoy having been able to see how long and how many trials I can do because I have to go to a meeting or whatever. There's always something happening that makes these forces me to stop playing. But no, I think the record is above 20 trials. So yeah, I'm really curious to see how players react to it and if people try to do marathons and see how far they can get. What I love is that it changes the way you approach the game and how you make some of the choices you make. So I think that's a lot of fun.

At the XP Game Summit last month, one of the main topics was Canadian studios creating their own IP. Obviously, there are a lot of games that are made in Canada, but many are still owned by foreign companies. With that in mind, Red Barrels is an independent team and you've been going strong for almost 15 years now. From your perspective, what's it been like to co-found this Canadian studio in Quebec, keep it independent and grow Outlast into this franchise that now has tens of millions of players?

Morin: It's been a wild ride, to be honest. The studio was founded by three devs. Hugo , an art director, David , the level design director and game designer . So the studio was built mostly in the beginning to ship a game. And we didn't start, necessarily, with a clear picture of how we're going to create this company -- like, "it's going to be this kind of company, this is going to be the culture and all." We were really focused on just shipping a game, and hoping we can make enough revenue to just keep going. And the thing is, after we shipped the first Outlast, that's when they realized that we shipped a game, but now, maybe, we should focus on the studio and define the kind of company we want to be and define a a long-term plan and all that.

So all this stuff we have to learn along the way, because as I said, that wasn't our background. But at the same time, I think it gives us a lot of flexibility because we can move quick, we can turn around quickly. And the only shareholders of the company are all working on the game, so it's not like you have to wait for some kind of approval or thoughts or feedback from some entity across the ocean or whatever. We decide ourselves and it's freeing, but at the same time, it's nervous, because if it doesn't work, there's nobody to blame but ourselves.

Red Barrels in 2017.

But I'll speak for myself. The initial goal was really to be independent, and that's been our focus all these years. And there has been lots of talks and conversations here and there. But I think we're so used to just doing it on our own that we're really reluctant to change that. To the point where we're wondering if something changed, would that also compromise our chances of success? Because so far, the studio has been successful, so if we make too big of a change, is that going to trickle down to how we do things and make decisions? From the first Outlast, we never started with the idea of, "Alright, what's going to sell? What's going to make money? It's more about what excites -- what would we be exited to work on. What kind of game, when we wake up tomorrow, would we want to be working on? And then, of course, along the way, we must think about what is financially viable -- is this something we can make money from? But it's never been the starting point of anything we've worked on.

We often say our interests as developers are as important as our interests as shareholders. If I'm not having fun working on what I'm doing, then what's the point?

This interview was edited for language and clarity.

The Outlast Trials is now available on PlayStation 4/5, Xbox One, Xbox Series X/S and PC.

Image credit: Red Barrels